OK, this may not be the most rigorous and thorough test I’ve done, but since I didn’t intend to do it at all you’ll just have to live with that. I was going through the safe and happened across the Mini Mouse and a box of ammo and thought, “Hey, I wonder what this would do in gel?” After I tried that I thought I’d try Linda’s little Colt, and once I’d done that it seemed churlish not to give the other guns a chance. I did limit myself to one gun per cartridge, but I didn’t even try for a representative sampling of ammunition in each caliber. I just shot what was handy, which in the case of the Seecamp and S&W meant what was already in the magazine.

Mouse Guns, as we have discussed before, are sub-subcompact self-defense guns. They are usually chambered in ,22 Short, .22 Long rifle or .25 ACP. There are also a couple in .32 ACP and even one in .380 ACP for the true masochists among us. Yeah, there are a few in other calibers, like the micro-revolvers chambered in .22 Magnum or the tiny Guardian in .25 NAA, but I don’t have those so they won’t be included.

It’s also not a battle; it’s a series of tests. But ya gotta admit, ‘Battle of the Mouseguns‘ is much more attention grabbing than ‘Testing a Random Assortment of Tiny Guns.’ So, without further ado, let the battle… uh, testing begin!

Mini Mouse, .22 Short

This gun came into existence because Linda challenged me to make the smallest arguably useful gun I could. You can read all about that here: https://tinkertalksguns.com/2020/06/13/i-do-like-a-challenge/. The ammunition used was CCI sub-sonic/low noise, which claims to propel its 29gr. bullet at 710 fps., presumably from a rifle-length barrel. I did not attempt to measure the velocity of this shot; with a 1-3/8″ barrel and no sights I wasn’t confident I could hit the 4″x 4″ end of the block from far enough away to use the chronograph. Designed to be used at an arms-length, this is not an easy weapon to shoot accurately!

So, I fired the shot through four layers of denim and into the gel from a distance of about 1 foot, and this was the result-

As you can see the bullet tumbled in the gel, once at about the midpoint and again just before it came to rest. Not a bad-looking wound-track for such a genuinely anemic round.

The bullet penetrated a total of 6-3/4″. Dangerous certainly, even potentially deadly, but not something you’d want to bet your life on. That’s OK; this gun was made as a curiosity and for fun. It was never intended to be a serious weapon.

Colt Junior, .25 ACP

Linda adores this little gun, and she’s right to; it’s adorable. It’s also a lot of fun to shoot. I tested two loads from this gun, the first being a 58gr. hard-cast flat point loaded over 1.1gr. of Red Dot with a CCI 300 small pistol primer. The gave a velocity of 646 fps. and 54 ft./lbs of energy. The shot was fired over the chronograph, through four layers of denim and into the gel from a distance of about ten feet.

The bullet’s path through the gel curved slightly, but at 12-1/2″ penetration is impressive. The bullet did tumble, which probably accounts for the curved path, and came to rest facing backwards. With this bullet’s flat-nose profile, hardness and sectional density I think it’s not likely to easily bounce off bone. Put of few of these in someone’s face, or even center-mass and they’ll probably be reconsidering their life-choices.

The second load was a 35gr Speer Gold Dot hollow-point. I loaded this pretty conservatively over 1.5gr of Universal with a Federal magnum small-pistol primer. This yielded 831 fps. and a coincidental 54 ft./lbs of energy.

The bullet penetrated about 10 inches, though it’s hard to tell from my crappy picture. The bullet did not expand, but I didn’t expect it to. Pushed to about 1000 fps. in other tests I’ve seen they will expand a bit, and have comparable penetration to this.

Our standard load for this gun is the 58gr. load, and based on this test I’m happy with that choice.

Seecamp LWS32, .32 ACP

This near-legendary little gun was designed to fire Winchester Silver-tip hollow-points. Not because they were expected to expand, mind you; the don’t from this very short barrel. They were specified because, at the time, they were the only commercial ammo that was short enough to fit in a magazine-well designed for .25 ACP.

I hand-load either a 60gr XTP or a 75gr hard-cast flat point, and in neither case is it a ‘hot’ load. The exact load used today is the 60gr. XTP over 2.6gr. of Universal with a Federal #100 Primer. From this gun that’s good for an average of 727 fps. and delivers 70 ft./lbs.

Like all the shots in this test, I fired into the block through four layers of denim. As expected the bullet did not expand, and stopped barely inside the bottom of the block at 11″. Decent penetration, and a significantly larger wound channel than the .22s or .25, but that’s not to say it’s in any way impressive.

S&W Model 61-2 Escort, .22 LR

The biggest gun in this test is the S&W. It’s a weird little gun; large for a mouse gun, the magazine holds only five rounds and the design is based on a Belgian .380 ACP pocket pistol from 1908. On the other hand it’s dead reliable and hilariously accurate. I regularly shoot groups at 25 yards with this gun, and at closer range rapid-fire dumps are Big Fun.

The ammo used in this test is 1970s-vintage Sears house-brand stuff. You know, the cheap stuff. In contrast to modern cheap .22LR it’s extremely accurate and very, very reliable. I inherited bricks of this stuff when my Uncle Jim passed away, and by this point I’ve shot a couple thousand rounds of it and cannot recall a failure to ignite that wasn’t gun-related. I’ve had as many as 1-2 FTFs in a single 50-round box of Winchester White Label. Anyway…

The chronograph decided not to measure this shot, which happens occasionally with small bullets. Even though this is a solid-point bullet I fired it though the layered denim anyway.

By this point there were so many wound-tracks criss-crossing through the gel that I literally had to tear the block apart to find this bullet. That’s fine, actually, since I was planning to re-cast the block after this anyway. So, 8-3/4″ of penetration. not awesome, but hey, it’s a mouse-gun. Whaddya expect?

And in the End…

…a mouse-gun is the back-up to a back-up. Purse jewelry for a film noir femme fattale. The gun you carry when you aren’t carrying a gun, to be used in only the most extreme extremis. As such it’s good to have an objective standard to evaluate their potential effectiveness and limitations.

I was quite surprised that the most effective of the lot was a hand-load I cooked up for the .25 ACP; I expected better of the LWS32, and it’s entirely possibly that a different load will yield better results. Next time around I’ll try the 75gr. LFP bullet and see how that does, and maybe try some factory jacketed bullets in the .25, some high velocity fodder in the .22s… plenty more fun where this came from!

Michael Tinker Pearce, 18 August, 2020

I’ve been experimenting with making my own hollow-point bullets, or to be more precise, modifying existing bullets to make them effective defensive ammo. It’s kind of a thought experiment, like ‘What if there were a pandemic, people panicked and bought up all of the defensive ammo and defensive bullets for reloading, at the same time that the people that make those things weren’t working, so they wouldn’t, like, get sick?’ I know, I know, crazy, right? Anyway…

One type of bullet was still in stock at Pinto’s, and relatively affordable- Xtreme Bullets 9mm 115gr. CPHPs. I bought a thousand of them. They are great bullets; the copper plating is more like a thin metal jacket than most plated bullets, they are precisely made and re-sized after plating. Fantastic consistency and accuracy, but there is a thing they don’t do; they don’t expand at standard 9mm velocities. To be fair they aren’t meant to; these are target bullets, and Xtreme is very up-front about this. My goal was to see if I could change that in a way that was effective and yielded consistent results.

I got some 5/32″ music wire and turned the end down into what seemed a good shape, then used a 9mm de-capping/resizing die to mount it. I had a flat plate that I had turned for reshaping brass that fits into my reloading press’s ram, so I set the bullet on that and ran it up into the die. After some experimentation to get the correct dept I was in business, swaging defensive hollow-points from the 115gr Xtreme bullets.

I loaded these over 4.9gr. of Universal with a Federal magnum small pistol primer (standard small pistol primers being sold out) and tested them at the range. They flew straight and produced nice, tight groups, so that was something. Then I fired them over a chronograph, through four layers of denim and into an FBI-spec block of Clear Ballistics gel. The load produced an average velocity of 1170 fps. for 350 ft./lbs of energy. So far so good. Time to have a look at the block.

The result was far from ideal, but promising. As you can see in the photo expansion commenced between 1-1/4 to 1-1/2″ pf penetration, but then the bullet over-expanded and fragmented. The base, weighing 85 gr., streamlined at 10-11″ and penetrated 19″ into the 20″ block and stopped. OK, that’s better performance than ball, but not by any means good. The base had expanded to an average diameter of .4″.

Subsequent test shots duplicated this performance. I had achieved a defensive round that was arguably better than FMJ ball ammunition in that it created more damage and had less penetration, but I was not satisfied. Time to up my game.

Someone online recommended that I use a 5.56mm/.223 de-capping/resizing die, and I found a set cheap on eBay. When it arrived I shortened and modified the de-capping pin and experimented. I got what I felt was a good shape and length, but it was splitting to plating so I narrowed it down slightly. Pretty soon I was producing bullets.

I should mention that I was not much concerned with producing a bunch of bullets that didn’t work; they were still good for target practice, so they didn’t go to waste. I had to wait to test them in gel because the block was getting pretty shot-up. I recast the block to a 16″ length, which isn’t ideal, but sometimes you just have to make do.

As per my .32 S&W Long tests the backstop was layered cardboard, followed by pine 4x4s and two layers of 3/4″ marine plywood. Shots were fired at ten feet, through four layers of denim and into the block. Wound tracks were based on the full length of the damage rather than the resting place of the bullet; bullets sometimes bounce back in this medium. As it turned out this was irrelevant for the second test… I didn’t bother with the chronograph since I had already clocked the load. The results were better than the previous load, but as you can see below not quite right…

The first shot passed through the 16″ block, dented the cardboard and spun out from between the block and cardboard. The second shot also passed through the block and lodged in the third, fourth and fifth layers of cardboard. I think we can safely say this equates to an average of 16-17″ of penetration the two bullets. Expansion was reasonable, but asymmetric in both bullets, and I don’t know why. The bullets do not keyhole as far out as 25 yards, but it’s possible they are right on the razor’s-edge of instability and are yawing as they hit the denim.

The photos of the wound-channels did not turn out, so I’ll have to describe them. The bullets expanded immediately on penetration, producing a wound-track approximately 3/4″ to 1″, which extended 6-7″ deep in the gel before gradually reducing to about .4″ at 12″ of depth, and they never fully streamlined before exiting the block. Despite the asymmetric expansion that is not too shabby. While not a perfect result there is no doubt in my mind that these would be effective. No, they aren’t a +P Speer Gold Dot, but they beat the hell out of ball ammo and rival many commercial products. Not bad for a bloke in his home work-shop.

I expect I’ll continue to fuss with these and see if I can refine them, but honestly they already work better than I expected. OK, before someone addresses the pro’s and con’s of using hand-loaded ammunition for self defense, let alone the horror of using bullets modified to be more effective, this is just an experiment. I’m not going into production here, just exploring what it is possible to accomplish. The conventional wisdom is that one should only use commercial ammo for self-defense to avoid potential legal repercussions, and I am not going to argue against that opinion.

So, qualified success. Stay safe out there.

Michael Tinker Pearce, 17 August 2020

For many years in the 19th Century the short .32 S&W cartridge was widely considered to be the minimum viable self-defense cartridge, was chambered in countless small top-break revolvers, and not a few inexpensive solid-frame guns. Firing an 88gr RNL bullet at around 650 fps it was far from a powerhouse, and by the latter decades of that century it was increasingly understood to be under-powered.

When S&W introduced their new solid-frame Hand Ejector in 1896 it came with a new cartridge- .32 S&W Long. This was still a black-powder cartridge, but offered heavier bullets and a bit more velocity. Bullets weighed 88-100 grains and velocities ran between 750-800 fps. This was a significant improvement, and the new cartridge quickly developed a reputation for excellent accuracy. New York City’s police and several other departments adopted this round; it was felt that the .32 now had adequate power and it’s mild recoil and accuracy would promote better marksmanship for armed officers.

Colt, not about to write ‘S&W’ on their guns, dubbed the cartridge .32 Colt New Police , but really it was just .32 S&W Long with a folat-nosed bullet. In the early years of the 20th C. this round was replaced in general issue by .38 Special, but remained popular in small-frame revolvers made for concealed carry well into the second half of the 20th C.

These days this cartridge is used primarily for target shooting, and remains popular in eastern Europe and places like India where caliber choices for civilians are strictly limited. In America it has been supplanted by cartridges like .32 H&R magnum and .327 Federal Magnum, though even these cartridges enjoy only limited popularity. Those who shoot this cartridge mainly shoot it in older and antique guns, and commercial ammunition choices are limited. There are high-powered loads available from Buffalo Bore, and several companies offer hollow-points. Unfortunately these hollow-point rounds do not have enough velocity to expand from typical revolvers.

So, low-powered and largely obsolete- but does it have to be? Can we, with modern understanding and hand-loaded ammunition, return this venerable cartridge to relevance? I undertook a series of tests to find out.

The Test Standards

To test these cartridges I borrowed from the FBI’s standard tests for law-enforcement duty loads. The test media was 4x4x16″ FBI-spec Clear Ballistics gel covered by four layers of denim to simulate performance when penetrating clothing. The FBI considers a round to have adequate penetration for duty if it passes through the denim and penetrates 12-19″ of gel. Clear ballistics gel is highly elastic, and often bullets ‘bounce’ back in the gel, so penetration is measured from the deepest part of the wound track, not the resting place of the bullet.

The backstop was 10″ of tightly packed cardboard, followed by pine 4x4s and 2 layers of 3/4″ marine plywood. My hope was that rounds that over-penetrated the gel-block would be captured in the cardboard without suffering further damage.

All loads were fired at approximately 10′ from the gel, and were fired over a chronograph to test their velocity from the 2″ barrel.

Lets make one thing clear- civilian self defense shootings are fundamentally different than law-enforcement shootings. Law enforcement shootings need to take into account longer distances, moving targets etc. Because of the dynamic nature of these events a bullet may need to pass through an extremity before hitting the vitals, or cross the body from odd angles, and needs enough penetration to insure the bullet will reach vital structures after doing so. While this level of performance may be viewed as the Gold Standard for civilian self-defense, in practice duty-style dynamic shootings are the exception rather than the rule.

Most civilian shootings occur at very close range, typically against a person presenting a full-frontal aspect. This being the case one might reasonably consider 9-10″ of penetration to be adequate for those instances. This is very much a personal choice, and I would not consider it crazy to accept a trade-off between expansion and penetration for civilian self-defense… within limits, at least, especially if the particular gun offered a peculiar advantage in concealability or usability for the individual.

The Loads

To limit variables as much as possible, all rounds were loaded with Unique powder over a Federal Magnum Small Pistol Primer, as standard small pistol primers have become unobtainium locally. Bullets were basically what I had on-hand or could easily obtain. The 2″-barreled Detective Special was used because the primary use for these guns, aside from target shooting, is likely to be civilian self-defense.

So, let’s see what’s what.

The Tests

90gr Hollow-base Wadcutter Target Load

These loads used a 90gr HBWC or reversed HBWC loaded to .92″ (the length of the case) with a heavy crimp to facilitate loading. The charge was 2.5gr.

Reversed Hollow-base Wadcutter- 814 fps., 132 ft./lbs of energy. 9-1/2″ of penetration, no expansion

Hollow-base Wadcutter- 843 fps., 142 ft./lbs of energy. 9-3/8″ of penetration, no expansion

There’s a reason these are referred to as ‘target loads.’ They are well-suited to that purpose, and would likely serve decently as a small-game cartridge. let’s up the anti a bit…

90gr. Reverse Hollow-base Wadcutter, high power

In this load the bullets were loaded over 3.5gr of Unique- a full grain more than target loads above. Again, they were loaded to an overall length of .92″ with a heavy crimp.

Shot #1, 1011 fps., 204ft./lbs of energy, 11″ of penetration. bullet was slightly distorted but showed no expansion.

Shot #2, 1014 fps., 205 ft./lbs of energy, 10-1/8″ of penetration. Bullet showed significant asymmetric expansion, with one side folded against the other as if the bullet were yawing significantly. maximum expansion was .498″

90gr. reverse Hollow-base Wadcutter, OAL 1.30″, Max pressure

This load approaches SAAMI maximum pressure, and should be fired only from high-quality firearms in good condition. In this load the bullet is not fully seated in the casing, protruding like a conventional bullet. The charge is 4.3gr. of Unique.

1084 fps., 235 ft./lbs of energy, 8-5/8″ of penetration. Max. Expansion .604″. minimum .576″

This’d be a great load for knocking a rabbit or raccoon on it’s ass, but it’s questionable for self-defense.

90gr. Reverse Hollow-base Wadcutter, fully seated +P

DO NOT DUPLICATE THIS LOAD FOR REVOLVERS CHAMBERED IN .32 S&W LONG!

Use this load ONLY in .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal magnum handguns.

OK, I screwed up with this load; it is far too powerful for older handguns and will damage many of them. Basically I took a Maximum load for a semi-wadcutter and used it with a fully seated wadcutter, somehow not taking into account the increase of pressure that would occur from the deeply-seated bullet. The Colt is pretty stout for this caliber and seems to have taken no harm from the two shots I fired, but using this load is a Very Bad Idea in a gun chambered for .32 Colt new Police/ .32 S&W Long.

Shot #1 1250fps., 321 ft./lbs of energy, 10-1/4″ of penetration. Bullet over-expanded (the edges actually rolled back) to a maximum of .560″, and a minimum of .474″

Shot #2 ERROR-2, no velocity reading. 8-3/4″ of penetration. Bullet over-expanded slightly to an average diameter of .570″

75gr LRNFP

This bullet was loaded over 3.5gr., and has mild recoil and good accuracy, but produces very small permanent wound channels and high penetration

924 fps., 142 ft./lbs of energy. 16+” of penetration. No expansion. Bullet passed entirely through the block and was recovered 2″ deep in the layered cardboard backstop. Zipped through the block on a fairly straight path.

Penetration is more than adequate for self-defense, but multiple hits in a good location might be required for this to be effective owing to the very small wound channel.

96gr. LFP, maximum pressure

This load is SAAMI maximum pressure, and should be approached with caution, starting 10% below the listed load and working up. The charge is 4.3gr of Unique.

991 fps., 209 ft./lbs of energy. 16+ inches of penetrations, bullet was distorted but showed no expansion. The bullet passed entirely through the block and was recovered approximately 3″ deep in the cardboard backstop.

86gr, XTP Hollow-point, high-pressure

I don’t know if this load exceeds SAAMI max pressure for this cartridge, but I would restrict it’s use to only high-quality guns in good condition. The charge was 4.0gr of Unique.

1037 fps., 203 ft./lbs., 12-1/4″ of penetration, average expansion .371. You can see some early disruption on entry, implying that expansion started immediately. The bullet skipped off the surface of the board the block was sitting on and wound up deflecting deep into the block.

I would consider this the best defensive load of the bunch, and am inclined to do further testing. Performance isn’t spectacular by any means, but XTPs tend to give their best results at higher velocities. I think this bullet would shine in a .327 federal magnum loaded to around 1300 fps.

It would be interesting to try to develop a load based on a more modern hollow-point design like a Speer Gold Dot.

So, How Obsolete is it?

.32 S&W Long is definitely obsolete, but that doesn’t mean that it’s useless. It’s an excellent target and small-game round, and with good shot placement several of these loads would work quite adequately for civilian self defense in most situations.

I shoot this little Detective Special very well, and can keep rapid-fire shots in the basket out to 25 yards. I would not feel undergunned with the Colt, especially with the 85gr. XTP load, but I have more modern firearms in this size range that chamber calibers that perform significantly better, both in this type of test and historically in real-life shootings.

My wife Linda has an old wrist injury and is recoil-sensitive as a result, and she likes wheel-guns. My Colt or a S&W Terrier in .32 would work well for her, but her Sig-Sauer P238 holds more shots, is arguably more effective and she loves it. It’s just a better tool in general, and better for her specifically.

If a .32 S&W Long is what you’ve got, it’ll probably do as long as you do your part, but there’s always a ‘but.’ This cartridge isn’t obsolete because it’s incapable; it’s obsolete because there are better options if you can procure them, and procuring them isn’t difficult or particularly expensive.

None of this will stop me from enjoying my .32s, using them for small game or target shooting. It’s a sweet shooting cartridge, and there are some sweet guns chambered for it… and at the end of the day it’s not so obsolete that it can’t protect your life and loved ones.

Michael Tinker Pearce, 16 August, 2020

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